Any atheists around?

[gouldy]

S'alright, it's just a gripe I have, because you see it plastered all over Youtube. On all video comments "The logical position is Agnosticism"... RAGE! It's not even a position!

I often just find myself linking to this video, which explains the wording quite well; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fkEJtQJ5tz4

When most people say they're atheist, they just mean that they believe in God the same way that they believe in the Invisible Pink Unicorn, Zeus, Odin, or anything else that's unprovable/undisprovable that you can postulate.

For example, I claim that there is a secret alien military base dug 1200ft below the north pole, and that I can telepathically communicate with the aliens in said base. You cannot really prove nor disprove that idea, even though you know it's batshit insane for anyone to believe. Thus it is the exact same with any god, and why any thinking person is as agnostic towards that idea as they are towards any god.

I don't quite understand the obsessive-ness of using the term "atheism" though, as no one calls people "monotheists" or "polytheists", instead, calling them by religious belief. That said, I have few ideas for a better term, but such terms are more exclusive to people who can't think worth crap who happen to be non-theistic.

Now, despite having quite a lot less apathy towards the good of humanity than the average Joe, I still don't have quite as much time to get involved with these groups, at least outside of our campus's SSA affiliated group.

I dont see why were all having this argument on religion when the USA doesnt care what you practice, and we should be working or riding on coasters anyway. Why there was an off-topic section made is my biggest question.

Originally posted by Vid_w

I've personally never seen a group of atheists assemble with the purpouse of talking about the lack of a deity...

Actually, the atheist group I attend sometimes does talk about our lack of belief in a god. Although it's never "rabble rabble rabble, I don't believe in a god" it's usually a conversation relating to recent scientific research and discoveries that may point further away from a god existing. Mostly we drink coffee, tell dirty jokes, and talk about the stupidity that is spewed by religion extremists.

Neither is not collecting stamps, a hobby.

Edit:

I dont see why were all having this argument on religion when the USA doesnt care what you practice, and we should be working or riding on coasters anyway. Why there was an off-topic section made is my biggest question.

This is my single biggest problem with most religious people. When the conversation comes closer and closer to the point of rationality in favor of atheism, the theist(s) try to steer the conversation away by complaining. If you don't have anything constructive to add to the discussion, don't comment. If this thread bothers you that much, don't read it.

"when the USA doesn't care what you practice"

Except for those schools that, you know, punish kids who don't mindlessly recite the Pledge of Allegiance. And for those in the government holding prayers when they should actually be doing something. And for those bigoted goons who say that people can't marry because their of a gender that their stupid holy book calls an abomination. And for those who think it's perfectly normal to mutilate a newborn's genitals and then proceed to indoctrinate him to believe that he's going to be tortured for all of eternity if he doesn't believe in that little holy book that calls him an abomination if he happens to be born gay. And for those who don't want to allow non-Christian displays around government buildings. For those who lie to our children about how our country was founded, on how our world came about and how we evolved, and on anybody who doesn't happen to be Christian. For those who pick fights with someone because they wear a turban, fire an employee because they're gay, or bring prejudice against someone who doesn't swear on a book of fairy tales. And for the Christians who aren't batshit insane like that but who have nothing against those who are.

Originally posted by coasteragent99
And for those who think it's perfectly normal to mutilate a newborn's genitals...

That is the only thing I don't agree with you on. As a man that has served in the military, I do see a perfectly medical and hygienic reason for circumcision. I served with a guy that wasn't cut and he got a couple infections while in the field because of that.

you know i havent decided on a religion at all yet okay? on one side we are strict darwinian evolution believers and on another side we are praying to some random god. i do both out of respect, but atheism just doesnt sound rational. like communism. its a good idea but it cant be done perfectly. it can only be accepted if it was written on paper. this is what my Darwins believe. my other side says that anything can be achieved if you believe, and this is basically saying," you silly atheists! pray to me and i will make you happy!" and if atheism isnt a belief then why would we have this religion battle?

and second, how did this discussion go from an atheist commercial gathering ad to a theist vs. atheist battle to hotheaded arguments to a discussion about genitals?

before this topic i never delved this deep into religion but i see its power already. is it a battle for the belief for what is right or a corrupt power struggle to assert your influence over the world?

i have vented...i can now reach nirvana...[sillyme]

As a rational, intelligent person, I tolerate your freedom to believe anything you want to. However, as a man of science, I am curious how you draw irrational from atheism. Many atheists (not all, but most) tend to think that scientific research holds more water than a book of fairy tales that's been rewritten numerous times in multiple languages from the dark ages.

So I'm curious: what about science and atheism don't you find rational?

[SauronHimself]

Originally posted by TheArchitect


If you don't like it, don't read/post in this topic. But it is not your place to decide who talks about what, this is a democracy. People clearly want to talk about this, and provided everyone has good motives I for one do not see the harm.

First you tell me not to read this thread or post in it if I don't like it, and then you tell me it's not my place to decide who talks about what. That was blatant hypocrisy. Moreover, this is not a democracy. This is a privately owned site that is paid by Oscar. Democratic rule does not exist on private property unless the owner allows for it.

something must have happened: evolution is sorta bogus since can you really make 4 billion species in 4 billion years if the averaged life span is around 1.5 years just by splicing one letter in the dna code, and even then what are the chances of that becoming a helpful trait? as for atheism i just see this big irony, i am not saying that atheism shouldnt be practiced but that there is a full on discussion right now about religions and atheism is in that battle. it's sort of weird, like saying that god can do everything: he can exist then he's existing. but then if he doesnt exist he's not existing! that's an action! these arguments seem like bogus, and as a matter of fact theists and atheists are bogus! why cant everyone just get along? but then if you answer this question atheists will try to assert atheism as the way of life but then the theists will come back and assert theism as the way of life and then therre's this struggle for power and oh my brain is hurting again! did animals fight about what philosophy they believed in? No! just for who's better! so all forms of religion (including the religion of non-religion) is a power struggle now that i think of it...

Funny how this is already a hot topic... considering less than a day has passed already...

[Coasterkidmwm]

Originally posted by coasteragent99
For example, I claim that there is a secret alien military base dug 1200ft below the north pole, and that I can telepathically communicate with the aliens in said base. You cannot really prove nor disprove that idea

Geophysics can find your base quite nicely.

Originally posted by richie5126

I dont see why were all having this argument on religion when the USA doesnt care what you practice

Yes it does. Plenty of rules and restrictions are solely the fault of christians, rooted in christianity, and have no societal value aside from agreeing with whatever poorly worded Bible passage they decide to believe in while ignoring others in the current decade. I should not be subject to the stupid oppressive poop and yet I am.

It is difficult to find programs that are more of an abysmal statistical failure than the abstinence only or the pray away the gay centers. It really is difficult. Try to find one.

Originally posted by richie5126

you know i havent decided on a religion at all yet okay? on one side we are strict darwinian evolution believer

Paleontologists (people who aren't a 14 year old dipshit and actually now what they're talking about) don't use Darwin.

You don't "believe" in evolution. It happened. It has been proven repeatedly, and people need to deal with it like an adult. The consequences of evolution not being fact is you paying an order of magnitude or more for gasoline because currently it is impossible to be certain what hydrocarbons one is going to pump out of the ground without the principles of evolution having worked. Drilling a million dollar well that ends up clogging up with asphaltenes because the oil company decided to not use conodont data (based entirely on evolution of the species through time) translates into you paying more at the pump.

DEAL. WITH. IT.

I still have yet to meet someone who can adequately explain what evolution is that has decided it doesn't exist in my entire lifetime.

Originally posted by richie5126

something must have happened: evolution is sorta bogus since can you really make 4 billion species in 4 billion years if the averaged life span is around 1.5 years just by splicing one letter in the dna code, and even then what are the chances of that becoming a helpful trait? as for atheism i just see this big irony, i am not saying that atheism shouldnt be practiced but that there is a full on discussion right now about religions and atheism is in that battle. it's sort of weird, like saying that god can do everything: he can exist then he's existing. but then if he doesnt exist he's not existing! that's an action! these arguments seem like bogus, and as a matter of fact theists and atheists are bogus! why cant everyone just get along? but then if you answer this question atheists will try to assert atheism as the way of life but then the theists will come back and assert theism as the way of life and then therre's this struggle for power and oh my brain is hurting again! did animals fight about what philosophy they believed in? No! just for who's better! so all forms of religion (including the religion of non-religion) is a power struggle now that i think of it...

I practice my atheism in the same way I practice my a-santaclaus-ism and my lack of collecting stamps and racing RC cars. Not playing basketball is the way of life to go!

Total estimated number of species is in the millions, not billions. Reproductive cycles vary enormously amongst them, but at some point there's enough life reproducing where any trait that helps at all is passed on. (Natural selection.) Now, go read a biology textbook.

Originally posted by Coasterkidmwm

Originally posted by coasteragent99
For example, I claim that there is a secret alien military base dug 1200ft below the north pole, and that I can telepathically communicate with the aliens in said base. You cannot really prove nor disprove that idea

Geophysics can find your base quite nicely.

Unless the aliens have technology or supernatural powers to hide it of course lol.

If what I was getting at wasn't clear enough, it's that anyone can just make up bullshit and define it as "unknowable". (i.e. Russell's Teapot)

Sir, allow me to intellectually rip apart everything you just said.

Originally posted by richie5126

something must have happened: evolution is sorta bogus since can you really make 4 billion species in 4 billion years if the averaged life span is around 1.5 years just by splicing one letter in the dna code, and even then what are the chances of that becoming a helpful trait?

My first question to you: Where are you getting this data from? Your argument from the start doesn't hold any salt due to the fact that you made a claim yet have no source for it.

as for atheism i just see this big irony, i am not saying that atheism shouldnt be practiced but that there is a full on discussion right now about religions and atheism is in that battle. it's sort of weird, like saying that god can do everything: he can exist then he's existing. but then if he doesnt exist he's not existing! that's an action! these arguments seem like bogus, and as a matter of fact theists and atheists are bogus! why cant everyone just get along?

1. How is atheism ironic?
2. "but then if he doesnt exist he's not existing! that's an action!" That is not an action. Not doing something is the lack of action.
3. "why cant everyone just get along?" I've yet to hear a coherent answer from a theist to this question. It always turns into the theist complaining about "why can't everyone have the same imaginary friend as me?"

but then if you answer this question atheists will try to assert atheism as the way of life but then the theists will come back and assert theism as the way of life and then therre's this struggle for power and oh my brain is hurting again!

I have a simple solution for you. Stop trying to comprehend that of which you don't understand for now. But on the other hand, don't assume that everything in the universe is there because a god put it there. To think that the bible is literally true is complete ignorance. Churches would have you believe that all the life in the universe is contained on just one planet - Earth. But again, ignorance. To think that there is absolutely no intelligent life in the universe is utter stupidity. You have a better chance at winning a multi-state lottery every day for a year than there being no other intelligent life somewhere in the universe.

did animals fight about what philosophy they believed in? No! just for who's better!

That's survival of the fittest. One of the points in Darwin's book "The Origin of Species".

so all forms of religion (including the religion of non-religion) is a power struggle now that i think of it...

The non-religious (i.e. atheists) are not a religion. Stop insisting that they are. And it's not a power struggle. It's the fact that the overly religious republicans are trying to make their own religious beliefs into laws while democrats are trying to stop that from happening.

true, true

Die.

Dear god this thread disintegrated fast.

@richie5126
Go read a book, say, The Greatest Show on Earth, and then come back and insist that evolution is bullshit. Once you hit puberty, and, you know, learn something useful about science/math/statistics, you might be able to have a legitimate voice in a topic like this. Until then, please shut the love up. You're annoying, don't make any sense, have really bad grammar that makes your senseless posts even less sensible, and are digging yourself into a deeper hole with every post. You know that when you reply, "true, true" to an argument completely contradicting every single point you made you're not only accepting defeat, you're also admitting that you're far too easily swayed.

@NightwindElf
Trying to refute nonsensical arguments will always turn out nonsensical, just so you know [:P].

@Ontopicness
I wish I could go, but that's a weekend I have booked already. Seeing Richard Dawkins speak would be really, really cool. He's sort of one of my favorite authors ever. Well, him and Douglas Adams...

Originally posted by boneplaya
@Ontopicness
I wish I could go, but that's a weekend I have booked already. Seeing Richard Dawkins speak would be really, really cool. He's sort of one of my favorite authors ever. Well, him and Douglas Adams...

PZ Myers will be there too. I'm really looking forward to going.

I would go, but DC is very far away.
Moreover, I would feel inadequate within 500ft of Mr Dawkins...

Originally posted by richie5126

I dont see why were all having this argument on religion when the USA doesnt care what you practice, and we should be working or riding on coasters anyway. Why there was an off-topic section made is my biggest question.

an off-topic was made because every other forum in the world has one

I went to a catholic school from pre-school to 6th grade so I'm familiar with that whole line of belief. However, after being further educated in science I've strayed from those beliefs.

My main problem comes from the fact that there are so many different religions. What makes your religion correct while all of the others are wrong? How can you know that Christianity is correct while Islam is not?

Also, I reccommend this video.
[youtube]Kla-BcN8u8Q[/youtube]

As for myself, I'm not really sure how to classify my beliefs. I don't believe that there is a god that watches over our every move and action. Animals seem to get by just fine with no religion, and after all we are just animals. However, I feel like the universe had to come from somewhere. Sure the Big Bang is great and all that, but what caused it? I wonder if some supernatural presence may have been behind it.

Originally posted by raptorTC
However, I feel like the universe had to come from somewhere. Sure the Big Bang is great and all that, but what caused it? I wonder if some supernatural presence may have been behind it.

Some scientists think that our universe is part of a multiverse and that the big bang happened due to 2 or more universes colliding with each other. This is a possibility, but we haven't been able to detect the multiverse...yet...CERN (you know, the scientific elite that brought you great things like the world wide web) is developing a laser that can potentially rip a hole in space time helping us detect the multiverse along with studying black holes.

[jayman]

i dont believe in god, but after watching this thread i wish there was a far less fashionable term .

Here's the misunderstanding that makes rational people atheist and irrational people "Westburro-Baptist-Church"-ish:

God is not a physical, human being. God is only described as a human being as a method for people to understand the whole concept.

What we call "God" is pretty much the same thing as "Mother Nature", "The Force" from Star Wars, or "Spiritual Energy".

"God" is the force that holds everything together, controls nature, causes evolution. It's a force of unity, and a force of change.


Now in my opinion, a true atheist is someone who believes everything in the universe was just thrown together by chance, with no guiding force. Evolution is basically a guiding force; therefore, a true atheist cannot believe in evolution, or any of the forces of nature.

Originally posted by Jonny Richey

Here's the misunderstanding that makes rational people atheist and irrational people "Westburro-Baptist-Church"-ish:

God is not a physical, human being. God is only described as a human being as a method for people to understand the whole concept.

What we call "God" is pretty much the same thing as "Mother Nature", "The Force" from Star Wars, or "Spiritual Energy".

"God" is the force that holds everything together, controls nature, causes evolution. It's a force of unity, and a force of change.


Now in my opinion, a true atheist is someone who believes everything in the universe was just thrown together by chance, with no guiding force. Evolution is basically a guiding force; therefore, a true atheist cannot believe in evolution, or any of the forces of nature.

That's a very rational argument. However, if I shared the same views that "god" is nature and evolution and all of the natural forces that hold the universe together, I would be a pagan. My wife is pagan and explains that they worship nature.