I saw The Passion of Christ today.

YES! thats exactly what i was trying to say!!!

lets also not forget about cosmology [;)]
and your 100 % right, creationists think "ok, the bible is right, lets proove it to the world" and scientists think "ok, were here, why?" and then observe and try to actually figure it out, rather than turning to an old book that's been translated into millions of different versions. also, does anyone remember that big deal about how creationists wanted the creation STORY to replace the teaching of evolution in PUBLIC schools? WHY!?!?? that is a perfect example of christianity forcing their religion on people. i hate it when people do that. evolution at least has evidence, creation does not. also, another good thing about science, is that it changes. if something is prooved to be wrong, it is replaced with updated info, and the creation story: its the same every time you look. it never changes. if a fact comes along that prooves it not to be true (and there have been thousands) the fact is just tossed aside and the story stays the same. also, with science, EVERYTHING is a theory. there is really no science "fact" because no matter how much evidence you have, you really cant proove something. example: someone tosses you a red ball. now, you may see the ball as red, the other peoson may have seen it as pink, or yellow. you dont know. or, it may have appeared that they tossed it to you when the ball never existed and what was tossed was some oother form of stuff. but that's getting into quantum theory and i dont want to do that. now, with creation, everything is said as fact, when for one, its not. and two, there is no room for error if you say its 100 % fact.

that's all for now i guess...

[:p]

oh, and harry potter is the most sold book recently, the most sold in history are the bible, then mein kampft, then the torrah, followed by the quarran (korran).

So there are more harry potter books in the world then Bibles? I will believe that when I see it.....btu anyway.

You think Christianity is being forced on you if creation is tought? Well honestly, evolution has been forced on me ever since I had my first elementary school science class.

To whoever said something about the bias.....

If you believe that the average old everyday scientist goes out and gets all his information for himself, you are wrong. Everyone who isn't a creationist comes out of school with evolution embedded in their head as fact. Most of science takes evolution as fact, just as you are accusing the creationists of believing it first tehn proving it. Well that honestly goes both ways. I guess there might be a bias in there somewhere, and I seriously do see where you are coming from. But you don't have the whole story. According to the facts that you have, evolution works half decent. Well ever think there might be more out there?

Here, I am tired of giving rock solid proof that youall don't even seem to read, then give me some random fact and say its proof. Intaminfan and I have proven creation.....why don't you take a stab at proving evolution? And don't just spit some random fact like the genes of chimps and us or whatever it was. Whats to say that when a chimps dna is 98% like ours that a misquito's isnt 97%? You havn't told me anything by taking facts out of context. Not trying to get anyone mad, but all your random facts just don't add up.

I want to say something else about religion being forced on people. Evolution is constantly being forced upon us. It has yet to be proven. If it were proven, it wouldnt be a THEORY!!!!!!! We are being forced to believe something that has yet to be proven and that few scientists agree on. And I stand by the twisting around of facts. That and the throwing out of any little detail that doesn't match up with evolution. They are out there, there are more of them by far then facts that do back up evolution.

But what is teh point in argueing if noone is open to see. If you can prove evolution right, I will believe it. You have yet to do that, so I won't believe it. And I don't think there is any chance of you being able to convince me of evolution, because it just doesn't work for people that have seen teh "whole picture". True scinece backs up what I have to say. Honeslty, we can go on forever argueing over this if you have it set in your head that an unproven theory is right, but I hope that someone will open up a bit here. Mabye I sound like a hypocrit, but I will restate, if you give me suffient information to prove evolution, I will believe it. I do believe that you won't ever do that though.

ok, IF, of course the living moths didnt evolve! they can't once they're born.. evolution is the gradual change over hundreds of generations. and i said that they eventually would become a different species. i did not say that they already were one. and what in the creation story has been prooven to be true? where is your evidence? just saying its true doesnt make it true. as for the chimps dna being 98% identical, i did not say that we evolved from them or anything, i just said that to show you that they're more like us than you think.

You say Creationism hasn't been proven and there isn't any evidence, yet you say that the Peppered moth will evolve and give no reason at all why it will? Tell me, what evidence shows that the peppered moth is going to evolve...guess what, there isn't any! If there is then show me, I'd love to see it. Almost every Creationism idea has scientific evidence that shows that there is a very small chance that it didn't happen. For example, there has been no written literature older than 8,000 years that we have discovered, and if we were on this earth for 3 million years ago like most scientists think, then we would've found A LOT more human fossils. Evolutionists go saying crap like the half life of Carbon 14 and Uranium 238 gives the date of things, even though a very small amount of radioactive energy can completely change what the date of something reads to be with them. Also, what even shows that the half lives of them really do tell the date of something? What you said about the chimp's DNA being very similiar also doesn't show that we are a lot like them. Thats just a very small similarity, if a fish has 2 eyes and a mouth then does that mean that they're similiar to us? Not really.

also, your making it sound that the theory of evolution says that an animal changes in its lifetime, wich is just rediculous. small mutations occur from generation to generation and over hundreds of generations, the animal looks a lot different than it's great great great (and so on) ancestors. also, with the thing about different races of humans:
YES they are different in terms of evolution. NO they are not a different species yet. if you give a group a long long time of isolation they will change over many generations. an example of this would be (not to offent anyone) the english. they were virtually stuck on that island for thousands of years, and (the royal family in particular) started to have changing features. bigger ears, longer faces, bigger noses.. its not a bad thing at all, just an example of how our species is changing even as we speak.

I am not saying that the theory of evolution states that an animal changes in it's lifetime. But apparently Evolutionists think it happened rather quickly since when they saw less light colored moths they immediately drew the conclusion that the light colored moths evolved from the dark colored ones. About the English people thing, that is just a very slight change that the genetics of of humans allow. They didn't even come close to growing different body parts or look slightly like an animal! If humans have been on this earth for 3 million years as they say then why havn't we changed at all since we were here?

This is where your argument falls apart, Intaminfan, because you acknowledge that animals respond to their environment, but yet you refuse to believe that this leads to a long-term change.

How does my argument fall apart there? Your saying that its impossible for only small changes to occur without having a long term change. like I said in my previous paragraph, there have been many small term changes but they all just even out to be the same, or else we would've been different than when we here 3 million years ago as Evolutionists believe it. (Which further supports the 8,000 year old earth idea)

How can you guys say science is on your side? Let's go through them, shall we? Hmm, biology is based on evolution, so that's out...Geology, paleontology, physics and astronomy are all based on a unvierse billions of years old, so those are out...Meteorology, climatology, limnology and oceanography are based on a water cycle that circulates far less total water than Noah's flood needed, so those are out...Chemistry seems pretty neutral...Microbiology deals with bacteria, which aren't in the Bible and therefore must be another lie drummed up by the anti-Bible media... Need I go on?

It's on our side because all the there are more evidence that shows that Creationism is correct, while there are almost none that support Evolutionism. If Biology is based on Evolution that doesn't mean that the REAL biology has to be based on it, just means its different. There are biological things that go against evolutuion, BTW.

[coolbeans326]

Jebus, you people like to write a lot

this topic reminds me of licoln douglas debate at my school. You have to be able to argue both sides of the case, hehe, i could do that here if i wanted to, but i am going to stay out of it, but i will say this. This is towards both sides, all of yall still fail to link anything together, you give facts but dont tie them in as to how exactly it proves your point. State your facts and give exact reasoning. Also, most of you say you have evidence to prove your point, but how do you know your evidence isnt false? Did you actually go and dig up the fossils and carbon date them yourselves? Or did you just read about it on the internet, a school book, or saw it on tv?
Again, as i have said before, this is a no win situation, and this debate could go on and on forever..... hehe......unless i decide to jump in it[:p] just playing.

[Kev]

It's a no win situation type of argument because there are no hard facts for either side. Evolution is just a theory, and christianity is based on a book that was written by common men just like us. It's all a matter of faith, or has everybody forgotten about that word? [;)]

[coolbeans326]

yeah Kev's right, you either believe or you don't, You aren't gonna change anybody's religion in this, the only thing you can do is go see The Passion of the Christ because I told you too. It's a good story, even if you don't believe in it.

ok, intaminfan: you say there's tons of proof against evolution, and tons of proof for creationism. what is the proof? just saying it's there, doesnt mean its there. we've given a pretty dam good amount of backing for evolution, now its your turn to back creationism. and if you make one reference to the bible then i will count it as non-valid.

so, where's the proof?


also (for get who said this) but evolution is taught as a theory, creationism is taught s fact. meaning that you can decide weather or not you want to belive evolution. if creationism were taught in public schools, not only would that be unconstitutional, but that would be forcing a religion on people. evolution and other (real) sciences have a ton of proof and are not religious matters, therefore making it okay to be taught in schools.

[Oscar]

Thank you coaster992001 for putting the word theory in there. Soooo, sup.

[Oscar]

there's our creator j.k. just messing with ya, just thought I'd throw some fun into this. [:D]

actualls, wws, i was watching the science channel last night and they said that life may actually be alien to earth. when life was starting on this planet about 2 billion years ago, mars was (theoretically) flourishing with microbial life. it had the same conditions that modern day earth has today. so, there is apparently now a theory that a meteor hit mars, broke off a small rock that was flung to earth and the microbes liked it here too.

its a bit of an extreme theory, but hey.. its possible aint it?

[Oscar]

It's possible, just like the asteroid that hit Earth and wiped out the Dinosaurs.

yeah, except that asteroid is much mre likely [;)] and that, unlike the begining of life, will happen again.

[Kev]

You know, I've read somewhere not too long ago about a theory of human life beginning from the asteroid that killed off the dinosaurs. The theory sounded pretty much like what you just explained.

i dont think that's the same theory.. mine takes place b4 microbial life.. bacteria has been known to be able 2 survive long journys through space. and i really doubt its possible for human life to come from an asteroid. there's 60 million years between dinosaurs and the oldest human fossils. not to mention that the dino asteroid was 6 miles wide. not nearly big enough for gravity for an atmosphere.

[Kev]

I wasn't suggesting that humans were actually on the asteroid. The theory I read about was suggesting that there may have been some living organism on the rock, whether it be asteroid, meteor, or whatever, and that humans evolved from it.

[Oscar]

have you ever set out say dead fish out in the air and watch it for a couple of days? ever notice maggots grow out of it for no reason? Well, the asteroid could have easily killed off the dinosaurs and then then bacteria that brought on the asterioud landed on the carcasses of the dinopsaurs it wiped out thus beggining a new life form from them. It's possible [:)] Or like Kev said, humans might have been on the dinosaur, just like us on freeways, we're always hitting something [:D]

one more thing... about 4 billion years ago, a meteor the size of Mars hit Earth. The moon came from the debris, and it is possible that maybe there was an atmosphere with life on that meteor. But if this theory is true, then I believe God caused the impact. [;)] yes, I'm a Christian...

i wouldnt say that god specifically caused that impace, i'd say that when the big bang happened, he threw stuff in the right direction for the impact to eventually happen. and wws, maggots "grow" on dead fish because flies lay their eggs there.. it was thought that maggots grew out of dead flesh untill a scientist had the great idea to cover up the meat, and leave some meat uncovered. and wow! the covered meat didnt get maggots while the uncovered meat did!

did anyone notice that as soon as i asked intaminfan for the actual proof he was talking about, he stopped talking?

well it has been proven that you do not need sunlight for life to occur. Life forms can thrive off of thousands of things on there own. Take the lungworm's that live 2000ft under the ocean where need sunlight penetrates. They have evolved to be able to thrive of the nirate rich nutrients from volcanic vents on the seafloor. So saying lifeforms can from an asteriod is quite possible, and im not quite sure about god mking an asteriod collide with Earh is right just luck...or unlucky, and we then evolved from that

[Oscar]

it was thought that maggots grew out of dead flesh untill a scientist had the great idea to cover up the meat, and leave some meat uncovered

coaster992001, have you taken a couple of bio classes? mainly microbio classes? If you did, then you'd see what I am referring to. Plus, the Earth, when the asteroid hit it, it wasn't covered with plastic [;)]

Originally posted by cjd

one more thing... about 4 billion years ago, a meteor the size of Mars hit Earth.

Woah, I don't think it was that big, or it would have knocked Earth way out of orbit![xx(]

One of the geoloy professors at my college was in the team that actually went to Antarctica to look for meteorites with evidence of bacteria. I am pretty skeptical that life came here that way, however, because how did it get to Mars? I think it is more probable that life originated here rather than originating in a different environment, surviving an impact that knocked it into space, surviving the trip though space, and then surviving the impact into the Earth...[:p] It's still fun to think about though[|)]

Hey whoever asked intaminfan for proof.....he and I have been giving it to you....why don't you give us some proof kind sirs?

Again I will say, evolution is a THEORY, not yet proven. It is being forced on us in public school as fact. It is not fact it is a theory. I though I made that point.

ok, look back through the poasts, there's tons of proof. you still have to give any proof. all you do is say that its there. its like saying "look over there" but not specifying where.

and hey, wws, who says the earth was not covered in plastic?? [;)] ya never know, were talking abt creation here. besides, have u ever ordered anything or bought anything new that wasnt covered in plastic? mabey the earth was too! lol

Originally posted by coaster992001

ok, intaminfan: you say there's tons of proof against evolution, and tons of proof for creationism. what is the proof? just saying it's there, doesnt mean its there. we've given a pretty dam good amount of backing for evolution, now its your turn to back creationism. and if you make one reference to the bible then i will count it as non-valid.

so, where's the proof?


also (for get who said this) but evolution is taught as a theory, creationism is taught s fact. meaning that you can decide weather or not you want to belive evolution. if creationism were taught in public schools, not only would that be unconstitutional, but that would be forcing a religion on people. evolution and other (real) sciences have a ton of proof and are not religious matters, therefore making it okay to be taught in schools.

There has been no proof that evolution existed that was provided in this topic, but if you want evidence (since its practicly IMPOSSIBLE to actually PROVE that it really didn't happen, or that it really did happen), heres a few links:
http://www.icr.org/pubs/btg-b/btg-006b.htm
http://www.icr.org/pubs/btg-b/btg-076b.htm
http://emporium.turnpike.net/C/cs/top.htm

About Evoltuion being taught as a theory, everytime I have learned about it in school it has been forced upon me as a fact. Protesting it results in a failing grade. Sounds like its taught as a fact to me!